The makings of a powerful tag combo...

[Collected Dust]

Note this thread kind of failed to work out the concept. Try this thread instead for more updated idea that might work:

http://xboxphreaker.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10766



This could be one of the most powerful tag arsenals ever.

The basic combo:

Chill Breeze
Annoying Gift
Neutralization
and THE MISSING INGREDIENT!

Explaination: I've had this idea for awhile(it's why I made that cartwheeler thread way back then) I didn't really want to deal with this kind of arsenal online but now I'm curious to see how well it would work.

A teammate can cast Chill Breeze and right before the move takes effect the partner fires Neutralization to make his teammate be able to do something while everyone else is frozen. That teammate then Neutralizes his partner. His partner then annoying gifts him Chill Breeze and the MISSING INGREDIENT again.

There is enough time to do all this while your opponents are still standing around frozen. You get about 6 aura back during each Chill Breeze.

Its what to do with the rest of the time and that skill slot that's difficult to figure out.

1. One of my ideas has been to give Abyss with the other items.(0 to pop a capsule). This idea sounded perfect. The only problem I realized is that this takes a real long time. So long that you might not be able to erase every capsule of your opponents and have them die in time. I have not tested this in a real match so I don't know if that's true. It might be possible to try popping twice in one interval of Chill Breeze being cast so there might still be a way to do it. Someone will have to test it to see if Abyss could really work.

2. Another idea was to keep giving Agonies of Death over and over. This is somewhat feasible. The only real difficulty is that an opponent could probably manage to run away from you before you ever reach them.

3. This next idea must work though it seems tedious and is not as fast as I hoped it could be. Once you start up the infinite chill breeze loop have your teammate burn through his arsenal to pick up the following: Optimization,(you have to have down to do the rest during the Chill Breeze Loop), and Recall and Violent Change. If you have Opti down and 3+ more skills than both your opponents, you won't need Recall. Otherwise you will give it to your partner and get them to recall t.(you'll probably also give aura) And then have him give you enough Recall back to you. Then you just give him Violent Change so that he can give it back to you over and over. Repeat the Chill Breeze loop and violent change in between restarting it again.

4. An alternate version would be to repeat Giga Ruin over and over but that also requires Opti unfortunately.

THe reason I prefer these attacks is because they can't be dodged by hiding behind something and their homing is some of the best.

Can anyone else come up with a better missing ingredient.

I feel like this is still a powerful arsenal set up but I just can't fill in that perfect missing ingredient. It'd easily be my arsenal to pick if I wanted to force a draw.

You can actually pull the combo off at your first draw: All's you need is
4 Aura Particles, Annoying Gift, Neutralization and Chill Breeze.
With Faith for Mephisto's that makes it really hard to stop and easy to organize the combo.

There doesn't seem like there's a lot of counters to it either once its started. Once the Chill Breeze loop starts your screwed if they don't screw up. I used to think you could jump into a Neutralization meant for someone else but if its like every other projectile that targets someone else in tag it'll go through you. You could try to run into someone's face to mess up their timing of Chill Breeze or slow them down. You could also run into the annoying gift given to get your own Neutralization to interfere(or even block it) and also counter Chill Breeze if they ever mess up.

I guess we'll never know how powerful it is till some people try to use it or we hear some complaints about it ;)

Sample template

3 School
3 Chill Breeze
3 Annoying Gift
3 Neutralizations
3 Mephisto's Pact
3 MISSING INGREDIENT(Abyss?)
1 Forest Sanctuary or maybe Amulet or Judgement

14 Aura

The problem with taking the Opti route is that only one person could carry Chill Breeze because of 3 school restrictions.

While this may not be the most exciting arsenal to play it could be one of the most powerful.

Anyone got a better suggestion for the free skill to give or made the ideas work? I'd like to know if it was
successful or not. The reactions would probably be pretty funny too.

[sphagnum]

missing ingrediant=muramasa blade...duh
both people for 20
_________________

[General Grievous]

...and then they consistantly dodge the Muramasa Blade, causing you to just waste time and loose health.




Chickenz and Monkey did this to me once, except all they did was freeze over and over instead of doing anything intelligent. [Assholes.]

Aaaaaaaaaanyways... spewing out Agonies o' Death is a problem because of the health restriction. Major blech.

Giga Ruin is easily rollable/cartwheelable if one is expecting it/sees it coming. 1/2 blech.

Abyss is super slow. But cool idea. Eeeh blech.

Quantum Decay over and over or the Violent Change one sounds like a good idea..... [oh boy. More Violent Change support. Like that wasn't hard enough to counter... unless you're Meatwad! haw]

Infini-spewing Thor's Hammer, Swarm of Moths, Spore Schism....

Ooh hey, that gives me an idea.

Scream of Evil + infinite Healing Waters/Heats/Agonies after a period of time would be pretty swifty.







The only downside to this would be them having Turbulence. A lot.
Which I've seen in increase of as of late.... [intelligent players I mean, not your common Opti + Photon Burst + Heat soldier].
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[Collected Dust]

If its possible to pull off 2 Abysses per freeze phase then it should be good enough. But I don't really know if it is possible.

The way to damage your self for Agonies of Death to work isn't hard. You have 2 options:
Jump into pits. And if you don't have pits have one partner jump off a higher ledge and hit him with Neutralization so he takes fall damage. Or hit him with debris.

The other way to make Giga Ruin harder to dodge is that your opponent wouldn't know who will fire the Giga Ruin at them. You could also take a risk by stunning with Neutralization and then Giga Ruining.

I don't know. I think of the layouts of the levels and it seems like it might be possible to pursue people with Agonies of Death while keeping the loop going. But who knows it could be too hard on some of them.

The major problem with more expensive skills is that you have to have Optimization down to keep Chill Breeze going.

Its still pretty fast to have just one deck set up the combo but having 2 decks do the same thing is really powerful.

I actually played one match where I gave 2 Muramasa Blades to an opponent and dodged both of them to cause him to lose life. :)
I don't think he used it when I gave it to him the 3rd time.

Skill based counters would be heavy erasing, lacks, turbulences, wind pressures, vicious balance, quantum decay, memory lapses, neutralizations, well timed purifys and refreshes.

But it really becomes a race to see who can pull off the screw over combo fastest.

[General Grievous]

Have you tried it yet?
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[El Davio]

I like your idea, but maybe you should consider throwing an Erase like Lack as the scret ingredient?

Then you could have one HFV the victim.
_________________
NEW AVATAR LOL

HOW DO I SHOT ROCK

[Collected Dust]

I haven't tried it yet. I don't feel like setting it up with a random teammate that might not understand what's going. Anyone want to try to set it up?

My biggest concern with attack moves is having to deal with someone who just wants to run around all day.

[Collected Dust]

Well I got to try 2 or 3 test runs with Unstoppable GIR with the arsenal. We tried the Agonies of Death version.

Man this gets confusing. You have to be disciplined robots to get this. Or maybe we just needed some more practice with it.

We got the Chill Breeze combo out fast enough but we kept messing up after about 3 or 4 loops after trying to bring our life down for Agonies.

Maybe next time we'll try the Abyss version and see if we can't finish someone in time. That seems a little less confusing than trying to shoot debris into a teammate or knocking him out of the air with Neutralization.

Maybe we could throw something like a Devil's Arm in to knock our life down easier.

[General Grievous]

Or you could just sit there and take it for a while.
_________________

[Unstopable GIR]

I'm going to add Abyss Instead of agogies we could try that today
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When your expecting a kick in the Balls and you get a slap in the face....
That's a Victory!!!

1000th Win! 12/19/05 at 9:56pm.

[Collected Dust]

Well I'm almost 100% sure you can't pop 2 capsules in 10 seconds with Annoying Gift and Abyss in this set up. You can get very close but the freeze will wear off right as you're about to do it again.

What's more to perfectly erase both players it would take roughly 7 minutes and 40 seconds.(time was calculated by 23 skills left at each spawn) Reasonably takes a minute to start up the combo so that brings the clock to 8 min. and 40 seconds. At least a good 30 to 40 seconds to safely travel to each opponents spawn point. Let's just say 1 min and 20 seconds. Bringing the clock now up to 10 minutes.

Now you have to wait for what will most likely be 20 life to drop to 0. Almost exactly a minute.

11 minutes. Can't win. Only if the matches were 15 minutes like in a single player would it work.
_________________
Check out my Phantom Dust strategy guide.
Covers basics, arsenals, tricks, and combos.

Download game save with all online skills here. For 360 or Xbox.

[Collected Dust]

The alternative to Abyss is Agonies of Death. It would take a lot of skill in comfortably setting up the loop and lowering your life. And great skill in being able to chase down opponents. It seems like levels are structured so that you can feasibly corner opponents and stop them from escape.

The reason being that these levels have a confining enough nature and for those who try to ecape via escape lifts can always be nailed for fall damage. I imagine Sein might be the hardest with all the falling platforms.

This would be the fastest dual deck build and for anyone that can actually pull this off on you, they deserve to, because it takes a lot of skill to successfully pull off.

Barring Agonies I don't see any realistic ways of pursuing opponents. They can hide behind things and I don't think there is anything in Ki Nature or Faith that could screw over opponents without optimization involved. Throw a purify in the build if you really fear someone able to escape Neutralization.

So the likely alternative is to have one person run a Chill Breeze deck like the template one and your teammate running some sort of Optimization/Violent Change/Recall set up.
_________________
Check out my Phantom Dust strategy guide.
Covers basics, arsenals, tricks, and combos.

Download game save with all online skills here. For 360 or Xbox.